Food for the Soul w/ Angie Hobbs (Republic III)

In this second episode on book 3 of the Republic, we tackle Plato's controversial theory of mimesis. The Greek word mimesis (μίμησις) means something in between imitation and representation. According to the theory, everything that humans make (music, furniture, paintings, buildings, clothes etc) contains imitations/representations of harmony or discord, of symmetry or asymmetry, of beauty or ugliness, of virtue or vice. In other words, the things in our environment contain not just aesthetic properties but also ethical content. The implication is that the environments we inhabit and the cultural products we consume have a profound effect on our character.

This theory of mimesis, like most things in the Republic, is controversial. Joining us now to help us unpack, analyze, and evaluate Plato’s arguments is, once again, Angie Hobbs, professor of the public understanding of philosophy at the University of Sheffield, England.


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Transcript of the episode's prologue:


Several years ago, when I was in grad school, I was living in a small college town where the most exciting hangout spot during the day was the local coffee shop — that kind of town. One day, I was waiting in line to order — the line was always very long — when I bumped into a visiting scholar who I had met briefly at a few seminars. So we started chatting, and I asked, “What do you work on?” “I’m a sociologist,” he said, “and I study ideology.”

And I was like, “Oh, that’s really interesting, because I keep hearing that term thrown around, but I’ve never actually heard it defined. So, maybe you can tell me. What is ideology?”

He looked at me and said, “Everything is ideology. Look around you. The art hung up on the walls in this cafe, the items on the menu as well as the accompanying illustrations, the way the pastries are packaged and presented behind this glass, the T-shirts on sale here, the outfits of the baristas, even the architecture of the space itself—all of these things send subtle messages to us. In this case, all of these items convey a counter-cultural, laid-back, eco-friendly, artistic, and free-spirited, vibe. Even the font used in the menu, even the way the furniture is arranged, contribute to that vibe. And the same applies to all spaces we move through in society. Everything around us is constantly communicating information to us, which we absorb without noticing. So, in short, ideology is everything.”

Now, on the one hand, that didn’t exactly answer my question, because that’s not a precise definition. But it was a fascinating idea. And many months later, when I was revisiting Plato’s Republic, I was reminded of that conversation, and it made me see book 3 in particular in a new light, because Plato there has Socrates put forth a similar claim.

How does that idea come up? If you remember from last time, Socrates & company are trying in book 3 to lay down the ideal education system. How do you educate the guardians of your ideal republic so that they are as just as possible? How do you raise them to be incorruptible, even if given the magical ring of Gyges, even if given tremendous power?

For Socrates, such an education, if it were possible, would require controlling very carefully what enters our souls. If you want a healthy body, you need to control what food you take in, right? Well, Socrates suggests that the same principle applies to the soul. Every time we listen to music, or read a book, or scroll down on our phones, we are feeding our psyches. And we need to be careful that we don’t feed it too much junk. You know the old proverb that says, "you are what you eat"? Well, Socrates would say, "your soul is what it eats." And the diet of the soul is even more important than the diet of the body.

This brings us to the portion of book 3 that we didn’t get to last time, but which is probably the most famous section of the book, i.e. Plato’s theory of mimesis. The Greek word mimesis means something in between imitation and representation. Plato’s Socrates uses this word to describe what was going on in the most popular entertainment venue of Athens - the theater. Drama, according to Socrates, is a completely mimetic form of storytelling. All the people on stage are imitating or representing characters other than their own. More often than not, the characters they are imitating/representing are deeply flawed, that’s what makes for interesting drama—flawed characters. For Socrates, this makes the theater an ethically problematic art form, for reasons we will get into later on in this episode.

The theory of mimesis isn’t limited to drama. Socrates extends the argument to encompass all products of human arts and crafts. Everything that we make (music, furniture, paintings, buildings, clothes etc) contains imitations/representations of harmony or discord, of symmetry or asymmetry, of beauty or ugliness. And when we observe those objects, those representations enter us through our senses and have an effect on our souls.

Which brings us back to my friend the sociologist’s claim about ideology being contained in everything around us. Both he and Plato’s Socrates hold that all man-made stuff around us is constantly communicating information to us that we absorb without thinking, and which can have a measurable effect on our psyches. But one key difference, I think, is that unlike most sociologists today, Socrates thinks that even ethical categories are imitated/represented in our industrial and cultural products. A piece of music can be a mimesis of courage or fear or desire or mockery or love or hate. And that’s not just because of the lyrics. Even if you have no lyrics, purely by virtue of its rhythms and harmonies, a piece of music can have ethical content for Socrates. The implication is that when we surround ourselves with objects that are representations of harmony, beauty, and virtue, we nourish our soul with good food, and when we consume cultural products that are representations of discord, ugliness, and vice, we feed our soul junk food. As a result, Socrates suggests removing from the educational curriculum all musical scales and rhythms that are imitations/representations of bad things.

This theory of mimesis, like most things in the Republic is controversial. If this is your first time hearing about it, your brain is probably already buzzing with questions and objections. Joining us now to help us unpack, analyze, and evaluate Plato’s arguments is, once again, Angie Hobbs, professor of the public understanding of philosophy at the university of Sheffield, in England.